THEODICY.
We have a problem.
The problem is that Christians believe in a good, loving God who cares for his creation, yet we live in a world that is full of pain. War, theft, murder and rape dominate our cultural landscape. How can an all-powerful God allow such atrocities to occur?
Essentially, you come down to two options:
Either God is all-loving, but is unable to stop the sin in the world, or he is capable of ending the evil that we see in the world, but refuses to do so, rendering him somewhat less than our idea of a loving God.
If a man allowed his 4-year-old daughter to run out into the street to play, what would people say about him? Surely they would say, “He is a bad Father. That child could be hurt or even killed!” Anyone who loves their child would never let them be in such danger. Yet God not only allows us to wander into traffic, so-to-speak, but it appears that quite often, he himself throws us into the danger!
What does this say about our heavenly Father? How can he claim to be good and loving and still allow evil people to run rampant?
The study of this quandary is Theodicy. From the Latin root words for God and Justice. The study of a good God allowing terrible things to happen is nothing new. Theologians have been debating this topic for ages. Recently, the Bishop of Durham, NT Wright has been engaged in a debate of this topic with ??????? “The Shack, by author William Young, has sold millions of copies because it tackles the subject.
Churches in general have failed to offer an answer to people asking this question, but is that because there isn’t one?
It seems that everyone is asking, “God, do you love us, and if so, why in the hell are you letting all this wickedness happen?”
Now, we invite you to join in the discussion. Join us at one of our Pub locations on the First Friday of the next four months to take part.
I agree that the church, specifically my church, has been slacking in any discussion of this subject.
I'm sure many people thought of this book but C.S. Lewis' "The Problem of Pain" deals specifically with this subject. I'm going to read up in it real quick, once I locate it, to help facilitate conversation. Are there any other sujested readings?
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Submitted by knoxstanderds on Wed, 06/04/2008 - 15:10.I'd suggest The Shack, as mentioned in the post. My wife is reading it now. From what I've read so far of it, it's quite thought-provoking in a way church sermons rarely are.
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Submitted by bobwaycott on Wed, 06/04/2008 - 15:47.I would also suggest reading what wikipedia has to say about Theodicy. I truly didn’t know what kind of box we were opening with this subject. I look forward and encourage everyone to post some of what they discuss this Friday to see what we all come up with.
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Submitted by knoxstanderds on Thu, 06/05/2008 - 15:28.I would suggest reading "Satan and the Problem of Evil" by Greg Boyd if you're seriously into theology. It's a treatise, but it's worth it. If you're looking for a more accessible version of that, though, I'd check out his other book, "Is God To Blame?". Both are fantastic, for different audiences. But I really appreciate the way he approaches this subject. I will have to check out "The Shack", though. Sounds interesting. Thanks for the recommendation.
-Becca
"When I feed the poor, they call me a saint; but when I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist."
~Dom Helder Camara
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Submitted by Becca on Fri, 06/06/2008 - 15:45.Wow, recommending Boyd! I commend you. I certainly think he has something important to say, but Calvinists participating in this discussion will have their feathers ruffled at your recommendation (once the learn who Boyd is, lol). I can't participate in this discussion physically, as I'm in Seattle, but I can say this: the issue of "theodicy" is only complex if you're a Calvinist. Dare I say, a NUMBER of social and cultural issues are only complex when looked at through the framework of reformed theology. That's why Boyd is the best recommendation on here (despite his stigma). And of course, you can always take Lewis to the bank. Cheers!
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Submitted by Josh (not verified) on Wed, 06/11/2008 - 19:51.Kudos for the Greg Boyd plug! I RARELY hear him recommended within the circles I travel, so it's refreshing. As for the theodicy issue, it's only "complex" if you're Reformed. Frankly, a WHOLE lot of social and cultural issues are anomalies within Calvinistic theology. Greg Boyd is important to read in light of this. I might also recommend this video:
http://shop3.gospelcom.net/epages/rzim.storefront/485431fd004106e2271e45...
Really engaging, lively debate.
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Submitted by Josh (not verified) on Sat, 06/14/2008 - 21:06.I'd like to just share how awesome last night was.
Wen. June 18th was Knoxville, Tennessee's first TOT meeting! It was small at five participants but everyone was able and willing to contribute.
Everyone had done at least some preliminary research which allowed for us to get into some of the deeper aspects of Theodicy. At the same time we also diverged into many topics that are affected by one’s views on Theodicy. I believe one was respect for authority figures (especially those that cause suffering) among other topics.
I would like to ask for some prayer for Knoxville’s continuing TOT meetings and those participating.
…so what is the next topic?
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Submitted by knoxstanderds on Thu, 06/19/2008 - 15:24.Posted: 19 Jun 2008 17:14 Post subject: A few suggestions
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I think we need to try and have this web site connect us better.
For instance, I'd like to hear about what everyone discussed at their respective meetings. This would help me incase other groups address topics that my group did not even conceive of.
Also, I think that we should have posted, after the meetings, some very scriptural teaching on the topic to compare what we discussed with. I believe this is important because it will help us combat possible misunderstanding and false teaching on the subjects. I would hate to leave a meeting and find out that a participant took and applide false dotrine from a meeting. I am no theologian but I would love to help with the research.
I would also have the group "leaders" to encourage thier participants to become members on this website and contribute to the online presence of pubplanters through posts etc.
I've been a member for over four weeks now and I have yet to recieve a newsletter. I would love to help or contribute to the newsletter and there must be others who feel the same.
I would like to say that I write all of this in love, for my brothers in Christ, for thier edification.
Love and mercy from God,
Ryan "Chops"
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Submitted by knoxstanderds on Thu, 06/26/2008 - 15:11.Ryan, I think you have some good points.
It seems when we first started TOT, several of us had a lot more free time. We used to always post a "recap" of what we discussed. When the group moved from 1 to 3 in the Chattanooga area, that habit disappeared. Trying to find the time to help make the website better connect those members who want to participate has been a hard task. Responsibility for the site's operation and development rests on my shoulders, though the content does not.
We tried for a time to have a forum up, but have not really been able to get much participation there. So I've been trying to refocus back on our original format -- very blog-like with posts that people can directly comment on. However, I admit I have more work to do -- such as setting up emails to be sent to people as comments are posted on topics, etc.
The newsletter is a great idea ... but lacks any real focus or serious ideas for content and focus.
If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to post a discussion topic to the front page where we can get involved in a TOT-wide discussion on how to better tailor this site for the users. If you ever think of making it down Chattanooga way, I'd be even happier to meet up for a pint and chat with you.
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Submitted by bobwaycott on Fri, 06/27/2008 - 17:44.Hey crew are we meeting this friday even though it is a holiday? I would love to discuss even if it is on a Saturday.
Thanks
Chris
Christopher Silver
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Submitted by sinfoniaba on Thu, 07/03/2008 - 03:40.I know the Cleveland ToT will be meeting next Friday, July 11th, to do our next set of discussions.
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Submitted by Dustworth on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 14:45.Hey are any of the Murphys folks want to get together this Friday?
I think it would be interesting.
Thanks
Chris
Christopher Silver
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Submitted by sinfoniaba on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 19:30.Chris, sorry about the delay in response. I'd be happy to meet up this Friday at Murphy's. I'll get an announcement posted to the front page.
Peace.
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Submitted by bobwaycott on Tue, 07/08/2008 - 16:12.